Monday, February 25, 2008

Aghori Sadhus

What kind of feelings does the word cannibalism arouses? Well most of us would get disgusted, but there are people who follow cannibalism in India even now.


India land of oldest society, oldest civilization, but all this time in the Indian history there was a sect dedicated to Shiva was involved in cannibalism and other very crude animal behavior. The aghori or aghouri sect has its origin in ancient Vedic system, even though these people don’t follow the main stream Vedic system but the root is the same. The word aghori in Sanskrit means non terrifying, ‘a’-‘ghori’ most of the Hindi speaking people would have heard the phrase ghor kaliyug, ghor paap, etc.. it is the same ghor, theoretically these people don’t attach themselves to anything mortal. They do things which a common man finds to be terrifying, so they overcome this terror by going through it, since they do it regularly it is a common thing for them.

In Hinduism, “there is no evil, everything is emanated from ‘Brahman’, so how could anything in this universe be impure”? this is the kind of philosophy the aghori babas follow. According to them anything in this universe is the manifestation of god itself, so everything is as pure as god and is god like, so abandoning anything is like abandoning god itself.

The aghori mainly worship lord Shiva, according to the sect every human is a ‘shava’(dead body) with emotions and they should try to become ‘Shiva’ by denying the human pleasures and involving in the aghori rituals.


Ghauri Shankar Mishra an aghori drinking liquor in a kapala(skull cup).

The root of aghoris are as old as Hinduism itself, but the sect in its present form has its origin in Kinaram, he was an aghori ascetic and lived for about 150yrs. He was believed to be the incarnation of lord Shiva. He attained many siddhis through tapas and rituals and then helped the people with his siddhis. There is a temple in Varanasi for this baba and is the most sacred for the aghoris. Some also trace the root to Dattatreya.


Bhola Giri Naga Baba blowing the Nagaphani.

The aghori is a human symbol of lord Shiva himself. The aghori lives in cemetery (shmashana), the living place for lord Shiva, this is the representation that the final abode for everyone is the cemetery. And many of the aghoris roam around naked, representing the true humans and their detachment from this world of mortals who live in the world of illusion. By this they transcend beyond human feelings of love, hatred, jealousy, pride etc..

There are many aghoris walking the streets of northern India with kapala(skull cup). These aghoris eat anything, when I said anything, it really meant anything like rotten food, food from the dumps, the animal faeces, animal urine.. etc they regularly perform rites(some are so crude that it cant be explained here) to attain the highest level in aghoratva, the enlightenment. The final part of the ritual requires a minimum of one eating of putrid human flesh, and also meditating on(sitting) the dead corpse. This is the symbolic of their rise from shava to Shiva. They follow the simple rule that the universe resides in them and they try to attain enlightenment by self realization.

As the ascetic advance in his search, he attains many siddhis. Slowly they gain control over the environment. They seem to posses powers to cause a rain or to stop one. This is disturbing but this is true, even though they possess this kind of powers they will not use it, for the basic rule of aghori itself is to deny human pleasure so the change in climate is an event which should happen on its own. Whatever the ascetic says happens, I have met people who have had direct relation with the ascetic, and I cannot question the veracity of the datas. It is also said that when he curses someone, every wish of the person comes true.

There have been many aghoris in the past. Some of them being Dattatreya, Kinaram, Tailanga swamy, Aghoreshwar Mahaprabhu Baba Bhagwan Ram.

Some stories


Tailanga swami

Tailanga Swami of Benaras was a very powerful Aghori, and perhaps the
only one who performed worship of Shiva at the Kashi Vishwanath
temple using his own filth. And Tailanga Swami could do so because he
had full realization that filth is as much a part of the Universal
Soul as roses, holy water etc. The priest who saw Tailanga Swami
doing such "dirty things" slapped him and ordered him out. But at the
same night, Shiva appeared in a dream to the king of Benaras and told
the king about his anger since someone insulted Tailanga Swami, who's
Shiva's very essence. The King then set out to find the priest and
punish him, but the priest was mysteriously found dead.

Dhuni wale baba

This refers to an incident which a man narrated to Ambar joshi about an Aghori Baba who lived in Burhanpur (near Khandwa,MP).This is what he narrated---There used to be an old Baba .People used to call him Dhuni wale baba. Now there is a samadhi of Dhune wale bab in Khandwa whre people still throng in large numbers to worship him.He used to stay ther and roamed the adjoining areas ,use to eat whatever came his way- rotten food or thrown away food .He used to utter obscenities if anyone talked to him or disturbed him even while he seemed to be doing nothing. He used to stare into the sky for hours and talk to himself. One day i saw a person come up to him and touch his feet and ask him to bless his daughter who had not been married in spite of their best efforts. The Baba uttered obscenities on him. Cursed his mother and family members and said that his daughter would go to hell. Then the man went away contented and after three days he came with some sweets and gave to the Baba who again uttered obscenities on him. I intercepted him on the way back and asked him why he respected a useless mad old man. The man remarked he is a great Baba and has cured many peoples problems. If he curses you then your problem is bound to get solved. Aghori Babas are like that he said and offered me a piece of burfi(An Indian sweet)which I gladly ate. Then I saw many other instances when the Baba uttered obscenities, people used to still go behind him even while he used to answer the call of nature. He used to throw his faeces all over people who came behind him and they used to collect it and take home as prasad.(holy).

Maldevata incident taken from ‘The Week’

Maldevta is a popular picnic spot near Dehra Dun. Thirst overtook us while trekking to Maldevta and we decided to ask for some water at a small thatched hut about a eight hundred scrubby hundred yards from the canal we were following. A dusky, well built man wearing a skimpy loin cloth emerged from the dark interior of the hut. Why, of course, we could have water, he answered. He didn't have that much left, just a couple of glasses, as he'd just finished cooking, but we were most welcome to it. Was this his permanent residence, we asked him conversationally? Oh no, he had no fixed place of stay. There was a cremation ground just a stone's thrown away, and he'd built this hut as he had been waiting for a lawaris body (homeless person's body which is generally cremated by a philanthropic organization or trust). As luck would have it, after waiting for some three months, such a body had arrived just yesterday, and he'd been able, in exchange for a good luck charm, to obtain the head of the dead man. In fact, he'd almost run out of water as he had used most of it for cooking the dead man's brain with some rice.

He brought out a blackened pot and showed us the contents. He'd already had one portion of it, and would have to space out eating the cooked brain and rice over the next three days. Repelled, chilled, yet curious, we asked him who he was. He was an aghori, he said, and Calcutta was his birthplace. After early initiation when he was just nine years old into Tantric Kali worship, he'd moved into other deeper sadhnas (disciplines), but always, it was with the forces of the dark. The rules and demands of the search for power in which he was now engaged ordained that he had to eat at least one human brain annually. Already, he had acquired the ability of divining the future. He could actually show us our future, in case we were interested. Why didn't we come in?

Fascinated yet afraid that at this isolated spot we might end up becoming his annual meal, we left somewhat hastily, forgetting all our lessons in politeness. Over the next few days, I couldn't get the aghori out of my mind. When a brigadier and his wife came to seek a reading from the cards as they were in deep trouble with a court martial looming on the horizon, it gave me the opportunity to go back to the aghori, with the anxious brigadier and his wife in tow. After all, he had said he could show one the future. What better way of testing the claim ? He was still there, at the peak of his powers, he informed us, as he'd recently consumed the human brain. This time, we entered his hut and our eyes soon became accustomed to the dimness. The aghori requested us to sit, and as we sat cross-legged on the earthern floor, placed a lota (container) of water before us. "Look into the water" he commanded. And in the water, we saw the brigadier, older, dressed in civilian clothes. After several sequences, we saw the brigadier with the Supreme Court clearly visible in the background, and he was wearing a dark blue suit and distributing sweets to a group of people who were with him.

Some months after this amazing incident, the brigadier wanted to take a friend to meet the aghori, but when we reached there we found the hut in a sad state : it was just a bundle of grass and straw and twigs strewn on the ground. Enquiries at the cremation ground revealed that the aghori had been driven away by irate residents of Raipur, a nearby suburb. Seven years passed with only occasional meetings with the brigadier, who was no longer in active service and was fighting his case in the civil courts. One day I received a message from him. The Supreme Court was to give the verdict on his case. And when I went on the appointed day, apart from other settings, there, outside the imposing Supreme Court building, was the Brigadier, dressed in a dark blue suit, distributing sweets just as he had been seven years ago in the lota of water the cannibal aghori had placed before us.

Philosophy behind this: Aghoris are indifferent to everything. For them there is nothing good ,ideal or bad. Everything that exists in this world is essentially made up of same thing. Hence they utter obscenities, may take liqour, eat Dead human flesh and do other things which might appear to be 'uncivilised' to us.

We should respect the way chosen by these people for enlightenment. After all lord shiva is also an aghori, yes it was his another name. Many people think that aghori babas kill humans for their rituals, but there is no strong evidence for this. Since this sect has most of its rites and rituals a secret, we don’t have exact number of aghoris present in India, but you can always find few aghoris in the Kinaram aghori temple in Varanasi.

223 comments:

1 – 200 of 223   Newer›   Newest»
punterpandey said...

If aghoris are so fond of death and corpses why don't all of them commit mass suicide and let those who love life and beauty live in peace ?

mystic said...

this world is a place between hell and heaven (if u belive in them), hell is for the bad and the filthy and heaven is for the good and beautiful, but earth is a place where both should co exist. there should be a balance.

courtesy:Constantine(2005)
they are not the same words but something like this was said in the movie when one of the hell dwellers justify their presence on earth.

this world is still beautiful with aghoris infact the aghoris have a better understanding of beauty, they see beauty in filth, and they dont instigate wars.

Anonymous said...

Just stumbled across your blog after googling Cannibal Aghora. I watched an old X-Files episode yesterday which had to do with an Acesti (spelled right?) mystic, and their ability to transform reality. This idea bent my mind a little bit, and made me think I am bending my own reality for the worse to incur my own Karma, must have done something pretty bad in the past. Anyway, thanks for the description of the Aghoris, do you know more about their communication with ghosts?? What's that all about? You can visit my sister's blog at mjtenerelli.blogspot.com. She is a single mom with an alternative mind set. It would be fun to have you join in on the commentary!

mystic said...

yes, its very true that they can communicate with the spirits(not ghosts) and they can summon them and after a point can order them to their wishes. but for a true aghori this is just a gift not the final reward.

for a true seeker he should not get satisfied by the intermediary powers obtained, infact these powers mean nothing to them.....
they have no use of these powers, infact they have no needs, that is the essence of aghoratva(aghori-ism)....

Caterpilar said...

Thanks a lot mystic u gave the info which i wz looking for long.

Anonymous said...

To those who besmirch the Aghori Sadhus for their ways. Let all be reminded of their eventual fate. For all your vaunted machismo punterpandey. Perhaps it might behoove you to contemplate the mysteries of the Lord of Death and Cremation before moaning on about Life and Beauty. For one day, like all mankind, you too will clutch at your body and die, perhaps think on the fact you will rot away to nothing. And all around you will eventually forget you.

eLFie said...

Beauty? Ugliness? Think for a moment before you spout rubbish.

The Vedic is not prone to 'belief'. Belief, by definition, can be superstition (okay, don't take my word for it. Check up Merriam-Webster).

The Vedic, or Bhaaratha - is a Jignasu (Trans: Seeker of knowledge). The simplest way to put this is that if you know, you do not have to believe.

Still don't get it? Okay...A blind man CANNOT conceptually understand 'color' because he's never experienced sight. Hence, he does not KNOW what color is. He relies on BELIEVING his companion's description of the concept.

That is the difference between The Vedic, and the superstitiously inclined (Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Bahais et al).

PunterPandey, Mystic, Anonymous1, Caterpilar and all the others - your concepts of Good, Bad, Ugly, Heaven, Hell, Earth, Creation, War, Peace, Your SELF etc. are based on something your parents told you, you read in a book (Bible=Biblos is Greek for 'book') or saw in a movie.

The Vedic, whatever path he chooses, is guided by his own inclination for Knowledge - this is not about silly things like Immortality (we're immortal by Vedic Definition, anyway - and must dwell in illusion-ary bodies as per our Karma) or powers over the Elements or Creation.

The objective is to FREE oneself (Jeevathma)from the bondage of birth and rebirth - in other words, Moksha - re-unite with the supreme self(Paramaathma).

The Aghori does not practice racism, he doesn't want to attack Iraq or even mispronounce its name, he doesn't want to destroy the Jews, Muslims or the Christians or avenge the havoc these religions have wreaked on the world (yeah, go read some history, peaceful people). All he's trying to do is do something which he understands, and none of you do, without bothering anyone.
Did he knock someone senseless and eat them (like a German did some time ago- it was in the news)? Did he ask anyone's help? Did he even tell you to follow his word like the Missionaries or the Imams usually do?

Did he kill the whales and dolphins for lunch like the Japanese do? Did he slaughter calves, cows or other mammals to make money of them and to eat them up? Did he commit Genocide like the Spanish, the Dutch, the Americans, the British or the Portuguese?

No. Unfortunately for the poor guy, what he does disgusts your otherwise clean world.

Now, if you must still follow your socio-religious conditioning and bitch about him, be my guest.

Each to his own level of awareness. Such is the view of a Bhaaratha.

Anonymous2, you're thinking in terms of Karma...interesting. Karma's not as simple as Newton's 3rd Law. It's quite a vast concept. I'd welcome a discussion of the topic at your discretion :o) .

Actually, how many of you know that The Veda defined Gravity mathematically thousands of years ago (Vedic knowledge was passed on from mind to mind till about 5000 years ago)? Finally, about a couple of thousand years ago, Aryabhatta documented this information.

Many cheers, everyone.

Anonymous said...

Elfie I agree with you 100%

They are NOT cannibals, cannibalism means when someone is killed to be eaten for a meal. They do not feed on human flesh as a meal nor do they kill.

Anonymous said...

Elfie, I like your reasoning. I'm less disgusted now after watching the video.

It's really not easy for anyone to accept or agree that way of life

eLFie said...

Anonymous,

The Truth is never easy to digest - either as a concept or as an everyday entity in conversation, programmed by Kali/Jesus/Allah as we are in this Kali-Yuga.

Neither is the path that leads to Truth.

It's easier to think that someone'll pop out of the sky and save your ass if you lick his, or that 'belief' and all that'll stop you from going to 'hell' or some other random conceptual destination.

It's harder to take responsibility for your own thoughts, words and actions.

Religion offers the former, and Truth offers the latter. Take your pick.

And on this note, I must quote a white bloke who never found Truth, but realized what the right approach in the Kali-Yuga was:

"You know what people should do? Tell the truth, in writing and fiction, the real sincere truth, the truth that hurts - make sure it hurts to say it - and the illusions will drop away. And life without illusions is both frightening and exhilarating."
- John Shirley

CoMaWaKe said...

John Shirley was a visionary ....So is Elfy =)

Anonymous said...

word A-ghor means not much difficult, easy.aghori always believe in perfection.Aghor sadhana is not as easy as keep the comment on blog.I m software engineer in usa, basically from India and also the Das(sevent) of Aghor OR Nath sampraday, i met Aghori siddha in USA whenever i rememeber them with my prayer, the can move every where by air, within a fraction of second and its a truth what i experienced. and still i enjoying their blessing.

eLFie said...

Hi Anonymous,

For a s/w engr, your spelling and language are appalling, if I may say so. Not that English is a language worth knowing, but effective communication is a good thing - especially in the Kali Yuga.

Having said that, I'd say you're remarkably lucky to have come across a set of Aghoris in the US- considering that the US is essentially a land of cheats. Nice one, mate.

Also, you mentioned that "word A-ghor means not much difficult, easy" -- I disagree A-ghori, in Samskrith means 'That which is not terrifying/scary/revolting' ---of course, it's hard to find the right English word for 'Ghor', but 'A' as a prefix certainly refers to 'that which is NOT'.

A true Aghori would not believe (to believe is to live in an assumption, by etymology) ---he would either know, or put himself on the path to knowledge.

Knowledge and Belief are diagonally opposite concepts. If you KNOW, you do not have to go down to the level of belief/faith. But when you don't know a damn shit, then you believe, and yak on about faith.

the Aghori 'knows' that there is NOTHING in this world that is dirty, scary or terrifying- only human perception makes it so, as all of creation is as beautiful as Lord Shiva --"Sathyam Shivam Sundaram" --though Lord Shiva himself sometimes lives like an Aghori, in cemetaries, smeared with crematory ash and holding the odd skull or two, in TRUTH, he is beautiful, as is all creation rendered by him.

Bhakthi, a system of Karma documented in The Veda, is not Faith/Belief. but that is yet another topic, beyond the scope of this note - which was intended to correct your version of the meaning of the word 'Aghori'.

Also remember, while the Aghori can perceive more than the average man, every average man has the same potential, but his consciousness is weighed down by his Karma.

Aghoris do NOT move 'everywhere by air'. Their consciousnesses are freer to move around in creation, given that their Karmic standing is a lot better than many others'.

The word 'pray' has its etymos in 'Prachhathi' in Samskrith, which means 'to ask'...so every time you ask of them, they perceive your query with their unhindered consciousnesses and you feel the response.

Stop being like a silly missionary who thinks that his/her 'belief' or 'faith' has moved a mountain. Realize that we were built powerful, by the best builder of them all - and our minds hold immense power beyond belief.

Know who you are, and where you come from.

I salute the Aghoris in their quest, and in their steadfast vision of The Truth.

Again, hats off to your unconventional communication with the Aghori gentlemen. It's good to be fortunate.

searcher said...

leading from several encounters in Varanasi I was informed that the meditation, sitting on a dead body, at the end of the ritual was an attempt to raise the body to a certain height, (the body stiffness due to the aghori's method of "sitting") but that if the body went fully erect the aghori had failed the ritual.

apparently these actions are carried out amongst a group of aghoris who cross the Ganges at Varanasi with the dead body

furthermore I heard of stories of necrophilia and abduction

(it was said earlier that there are rites so crude that they can't be explained here)

perhaps someone could fill me in on the truth of these claims (especially as according to the above what we see as crude or disgusting regarding aghori methods should be seen as knowing or an enlightened path instead)

Anonymous said...

If flesh eating is cannibal than we all are cannibals. Instead of flesh we eat meat. Irrelevant to the fact that vegetarian doesn’t eat meat. They experienced it while in womb.

The person free from ASHTA PASA (eight ropes of behavior) is "Shiva" and tied with is "JIVA". Disgust is one of ASHTA PASA. It is our cultured mind that stops us from disgust. For normal human what smells, looks bad is disgusting till one cross the boarder. Crossing barriers doesn’t mean becoming a psychopath. There is entire teaching, rules and morals behind this. A proper Aghori (beside crazy man) is beyond ASHTA PASA.

We sometime focus more only on flesh eating part of Aghori . When we heard of Aghori we think of flesh eater. The simple nature of human is to be more curious with what is different from him. In fact, flesh eating with Aghori is just as simple feature like we often eat meat or tell lies or steal if needed. Aghori don’t eat flesh everyday like we eat hamburger. This practice is related to specific time and practice.

This might not be true with a killer cannibal but Aghori don’t pray man for meal. This is completely nonsense. Their practice is based on “BALI SIDHANTA” (Principal of sacrifices).

Will some one believe that the person who is going to be scarified urge Aghori to do that ? But this is what Aghori/person does. No body who knows “DAKSHINAMNAYA AGHOR” is going to reveal about this publicly. This is because AGHOR (Aghorism) is GUPTA SASHTRA (Secret learning).

The physical knowledge that we gain today limit us to the physical world that we feel (see, hear, smells etc..) now, day to day. Aghorism prepare Aghor for the world after death.

- Person who tried to understand Aghor being outside the Aghorism.
ristopaunche@gmail.com

eLFie said...

Hi Searcher,

In your message, you use say 'I was informed...' - the question is who or what gave you this information and how reliable is it?

I mean, if it were as unreliable as Nehru's famous blasphemy 'Discovery of India' where he markets the theory of 'Aryan' invasion, then perhaps this question is best ignored.

On the same lines, what guarantee do you have that anyone on this forum is 'filling' you in with the right information?

None. If you really want answers, you'll have to find them on your own - or have a bullet-proof source that you can trust.

Having said this, ristopaunche/Anonymous, just want to add a couple of corrections to your account --- more in the interests of describing an awesome concept correctly than for the sake of correcting your language.

What you have posted is absolute gold - but here are the corrections, anyways:

1. Eating flesh does NOT constitute cannbalism. It is when a species resorts to eating members of its own species that the practice qualifies as Cannbalism.

2. 'Flesh' refers to the stuff in any living being's body, and meat is generally the flesh of a mammal when it's used for food etc. Poultry is the flesh of fowl or game used for food.


3. 'Bali Siddhantha' would translate to 'Principle of Sacrifice' - not Principal.

4. 'Aghorism prepare Aghor for the world after death' - I get the meaning of this sentence, but suggest that it be laid out thus::

"Aghorism goes towards expanding the practitioner's consciousness to take in what is perceivable AFTER the physical body has expired in its use."

Why? well, the world itself doesn't change after death - remember that death is merely the inhabitant leaving a physical body upon that body's Karmic expiry-date. And so, it would be the consciousness of the inhabitant in concern that changes. And it is this expansion or change in consciousness, I think, that you refer to.

Even as we live, many other beings live around us, in the same space - however, due to limitations of our senses, we are unable to perceive them. Methods like Kirilian photography may or may not reveal objects that are NOT perceived by humans- depending on what your choose to think about such techniques.

Regardless, bodily death frees up the consciousness as it is no longer confined to the Body-Mind-Intellect complex - and many humans are simply not prepared for what they 'see' - especially after being programmed with ridiculous post-death concepts put across in books like the bible, koran or torah/talmud.

And it's certainly a good idea to be prepard for this paradigm shift in perception, as Anonymous/ristopaunche suggests.

Searcher, if you read above, you'll notice a discussion on belief vs. knowledge, and that is possibly the best way to portray why it's never a good idea to live on someone else's description of life. Instead, it pays to perceive things yourself- as suggested by The Veda.

Many cheers.

Anonymous said...

I must thank ELFIE for correction in my note in to proper English. Now all English speaking will understand it. This is where Aghori lacks like me. Most of them don’t speak English or correct English. Their experiences are interpreted by others in their own way like ELFIE has done beside grammatical correction.

We are all unique, consequently our experiences are also unique. We all call sour to the taste of lemon in word but what one experience in taste of sour might be different with other. Hence we must accept the facts that even in the case of same object the experiences are different due to different volume of content of five elements (PANCHA TATWA)

When blind felt (touched) elephant, there experiences were different. The elephant is neither like rope as described when touched trunk nor like big plate as blind said when touched ear. Their description was neither completely untrue nor complete true.

What will happen if every one begin to write SHASTRA ( I don’t know what exactly is in English) being based on their knowledge from their experiences and claim it the only true. There will be several “the only true” SHASTRA like we have today. But this is against of eternal truth as said by hindu “BRAMHO EK ADITIYA”. The eternal truth is one and not similar with others.

This is where I differ with ELFIE when said “ .. and that is possibly the best way to portray why it's never a good idea to live on someone else's description of life. Instead, it pays to perceive things yourself

Life has several definition .

This is where one needs to have some one’s description in addition or in complete. This is where one needs to hold finger of belief. One can go on following his own path of belief which could insist him toward truth but may not obtain it. I don’t disagree with having own journey of adventure in mist like crow. But BHAKTI YOGA in Hinduism doesn’t agree.

Then what happens if what you trust isn’t true or not getting you to truth.

This is what is the nature of spiral journey of Aghori from “JIVA” to “SHIVA”. The journey is mixed trend of untrue to true, dark to light and death to eternal. Whether you travel being full of knowledge or being ignorant, you don’t base on someone’s description or you have own description, irrelevant , we all travel on spiral way toward “SHIVA”. The only difference is whether one chose to get in through window or door ! The destination is same.

The KAPALIK (Aghori those who eat in corpse scalp or that is skalp ??) followed what is said in “AGAM “ ( Verbal Shastra convoyed from teacher to student). They are complete follower from KAULA SAMPRADAYA to guru Kinaram. It is interpreter who has mingled their definition being self path follower.

Some time you are with bad by trusting it is good. Be sure that you won’t turn bad but your energy of belief turns bad to good. Correct me if I am wrong.

ristopaunche@gmail.com

eLFie said...

Hi Anonymous...

Please read my post again - diligently this time.

I have not 'interpreted' your experience. No one can. It's purely your own - and cannot be communicated with mere words. I merely corrected some grammar because I felt your message deserved to be correctly displayed. I'm sorry if you feel that a wrong sentence is the best way to have your message on.

Misinterpretation is the reason Bhaaratha is now called 'India' and the reason the country has a national anthem dedicated to a british monarch.

A moment of Self-Experience wherein one experiences one's true nature - the nature of the Universal Being, or Lord Shiva is known as AparokshaAnubhoothi in The Veda. This Self-Experience occurs only when belief/superstition/faith is replaced by Knowledge.

I don't know which part of my message pertained to everyone writing their own Shastra (and no, there is no adequate word in English to translate this to - it's a Vedic concept and cannot be expressed in most languages)

If you've ever studied The Veda (original scripture located in some places like Kaladi etc.), then you'll know that the very word 'Veda' means 'To know'. I wonder why belief even comes into the picture.

The Veda charts out the documentation of the complete system we exist in. Bhakthi is not 'belief' - its closest translation in English is 'Devotion' and devotion involves 'knowing' the entity (Lord Shiva/Lord Vishu etc.) you're devoting your consciousness to.

The word 'Hindu' is Arabic, and I would never lower myself to a level where I'd have to refer to myself as such. A follower of The Veda is a Vedic, not a 'hindu'.

I never mentioned anything about everyone writing their own Shastras - lol, but going by your very mention of perception being subjective "We are all unique, consequently our experiences are also unique. We all call sour to the taste of lemon in word but what one experience in taste of sour might be different with other." it follows that you cannot perceive Eashwara/Lord Shiva the way I do, or vice versa - and that's what I was talking to Searcher about. What I suggested he/she do was to go out there and experience Aghorism for himself/herself rather than going with popular opinion. I don't know what you interpreted that as - because obviously, you're trying to make some point that is very very unclear.

The Veda charts the path to Knowledge. But Knowledge itself comes from within you...and this is explicitly mentioned in The Veda.

The Veda is not someone else's perception - it was scripted and maintained by Lord Brahma himself.

No energy can turn bad to good - Righteousness and Unrighteousness are two different phenomena described in The Veda, and I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

Bhakthi is not belief- by Vedic definition anyway, and belief is not a quality glorified by any part of The Veda. The Veda encourages one to Know, rather than assume/presume/believe or have faith.

Everything I've stated is from The Veda. Aghorism did not start with Guru Kinaram - that is someone's version of history - just like the Aryan invasion and The Veda being about 5000 years old (it's actually closer to 50,000 yrs in this ChathurYuga). Aghorism descends from The Veda - with Lord Shiva himself traveling the path.

As for this paragraph of yours, I don't even know what you're trying to say:

"This is what is the nature of spiral journey of Aghori from “JIVA” to “SHIVA”. The journey is mixed trend of untrue to true, dark to light and death to eternal. Whether you travel being full of knowledge or being ignorant, you don’t base on someone’s description or you have own description, irrelevant , we all travel on spiral way toward “SHIVA”. The only difference is whether one chose to get in through window or door ! The destination is same."

To correct you if you're wrong, I need to understand what you're saying - and please don't be offended, but most of your paragraphs are very hard to make sense of.

If you're on gmail chat, give me a time and date, and we'll meet online to discuss this. Cheers.

Anonymous said...

ELFIE must be very nice ! He/She took such a great effort to make someone understand. Let me try some more English here :

1. Wrong sentence is never a right way to communicate. I thank you again. Alas! I would had been expert like you.
2. Bharat means “great” or “big” or other related words in Sanskrit as an adjective. Later on it is accepted as noun by user as name of the person, country etc. The name India (or hindu) has relation with Indus civilization as far as my little knowledge says. Being completely unaware of Indian National Anthem I just went through first time to appreciate your information. But I didn’t find such word/sentence in it. If you mean the word “ADHINAYAK” represent British monarch then I don’t agree, it has different meaning here.
3. Probably the veda I read is published differently. I hardly see name “SHIVA” written there. The word “AparokshaAnubhoothi” is of course not a name it is feeling ( you may dispute by saying realization too). Then again one can conflict and say “SHIVA” is also feeling. No point of making word web. Knowledge is the consequence of existence. All the existence are not understandable by our sense. To those existence which is beyond sense one need to believe it prior to knowing it. You are correct in a way, if you know it you don’t have to believe. But to know some thing it must exist, without believing in existence (basically we are heading to a very primary label discussion between AASTHIK those who believe and NASTIK those who don’t believe) you will not have desire to know it. The very first is it is there, than you must believe it is there, than you know it is there, than obviously you don’t have to believe it is there because you know it is there. But once you know it is there, is it ultimate (or may be the word final is correct, I am sorry not good in English) ? You must BELIEVE again that something more than that is there, than again you will know by your resources that it is there, than again and again and again … This is a cycle. Somewhere it is quoted
“ … why to proud by assuming I am GYANAWAN (with knowledge) because GYANA is never complete. The more you drink every time the different taste indicates to AGYAN ( which you don’t know). Let you leave (discard would be the right word perhaps) all the bondage of religion, traditions and GAYN and surrender (SAMARPIT is the word I don’t know how you call that in English) to me.”

Let me again come back to point.

You said : “This Self-Experience occurs only when belief/superstition/faith is replaced by Knowledge.”
To that extent you are correct. But don’t forget that your BRAMHA JIGYASA is not going to die on that point. It is like “the knowledge of climbing tree will take you to the top of tree but once you reach you will see some other tree/s”. Now what is correct is : “This Self-Experience occurs only when belief/superstition/faith is replaced by Knowledge. But in some point of travel all knowledge that one had turns to AGAYN. To liberate from AGAYAN you need to believe the existence of GYAN, than you look for GYAN, then you know, then again and again …In conclusion , the process of traveling starts (although it is a circle, you may not call it starting point) from AGAYN the great darkness, then one need to believe there is something or say belief in existence (which you completely excluded), But what/how/where/when exist ?, the curiosity of existence leads to knowledge, Knowledge drives to primary destination, then suddenly you feel that it is not enough you know about what exist, this is what is called realization of AGAYN the darkness on existence, then the same process is repeated again.
4. Your no part of message pertained to write SAHSTRA itself but I am just commenting that this is only your interpretation ..i.e. neither complete description nor completely wrong.
5. There are several meaning of Veda by noun by adjective, one of them is certainly “to know”. But as mentioned above, to know, there has to be existence and you have to believe it.
6. BHAKTI is not belief but far behind then belief. But again, without belief how can there can be a devotee. Ask any VAISHANAV ? or MUSLIM ? Several hindu SASHTRA has given several number of PRAMAN (evidence) to believe the existence. The basic Category are PRATAKSHAY ( which is direct and you can feel by sense) and ANUMAN ( which is not direct you can’t feel by sense but it exist) in brief. Veda encourage to gain knowledge by both evidence PRATAKSHAY & ANUMAN. When there is smoke in forest you must believe there is fire although you don’t see that. Some might prefer to say this is assume/presume/believe or have faith.
7. I don’t disagree with “ the word hindu is Arabic”. Indus civilization was not far from arab. The follower of veda is called vedic or vedanti. Rig Veda was recited in Indus plain and those vedic in Indus plain were called “hindu”. Hence isolated definition in between vedic and hindu is just not possible.
8. Aghorism didn’t start with Kinaram. He comes in middle. The creator ( there is dispute in name but no dispute when said “PARABRAMHA”) briefed to Surya and surya to Prajapti ( Am I mistaken here ?). What briefed was continued in two forms. One in written form as veda or sometime called NIGAM and another convoyed from person to person called AGAM. Aghorism is the branch of AGAM.
9. What you didn’t understand was a very important. I believe (I don’t know but I have to start from this belief) someday I will be able to explain it again.
10. Sorry for the expression you got. No offence I feel ! rather I love to write. The only problem is I am not an English expert neither it is my mother tongue.
Thanks
ristopaunche@gmail.com

eLFie said...

Dude...

I could sit and disprove you point by point - for instance - check out when the national anthem was written, by whom and for what. Answer: Rabindranath Tagore, to welcome King George, in 1929.

"The name India (or hindu) has relation with Indus civilization as far as my little knowledge says." - yes, this is what Nehru wanted you to think. The river on which the Indus Valley civilization existed was called 'Indu' - which as you know, is a Samskrith name. The Arab traders pronounced this with and 'H' sound, thanks to their accents (yes, I understand Arabic too), and this was the name that reached the Europeans who heard of a great land with great wealth.

FYI, I'm better than most with English, and I'm pretty good with Samskrith.

I quote you, in this case

"The only problem is I am not an English expert neither it is my mother tongue."

That explains it. I don't think you understand anything I've said, and I'm not wasting my time on this.

Y'see, I understand what you're trying to say - but unless you can translate correctly, you're merely chasing away those who would want to know more of a great culture - or - helping the whites to show our culture as a screw-up.


Would you be happy if I simply said, "you're right, O great authority on Aghoris!!"? If so, please accept this as acknowledgment of your vast knowledge, and spare me your terrible translations.

I subscribed to this blog to discuss a wonderful topic and to share opinions with those who understand what a discussion is. As of now, I'm unsubscribing, and will never visit this one again - thanks to you.

I cannot bear to see a great scripture mis-translated and misquoted by an idiot who admits he's crappy with English, but also paradoxically insists that his translations are accurate.

Anonymous said...

ELFIE must be very energetic !

But what he/she KNOWS (he/she is against BELIEVING something)has driven to ABHIMAN.

I wouldn't have entangled with such great negative force !

Let the positive power help him/her.

ristopaunche@gmail.com

Sukumar said...

Mr. Anonymous

Why do you have to be such an asshole?

At least, Elfy's words were meaningful - I do not know what language you're translating from, but in English, every sentnce of urs is meaningless.

Elfy merely tried to correctly translate what you said, and instead of appreciating him/her, you've chased away a well-meaning and intelligent person from this blog.

I have searched for another blog on which Elfy posts - but have been unsuccessful. It really is refreshing to see posts that make sense.

Whoever you are, or whatever you think you are, you're merely an asshole who cannot appreciate someone helping you with accurate translation.

At least what Elfy says makes sense - Why the fuck would Veda (To know) go against itself and support the exact opposite of knowledge - belief?

You can barely understand Sanskrit (or more accurately, Samskrith, as Elfy said) and here you are spreading wrong ideas with your little understanding of a vast scripture.

Good luck - with your attitude, you'll need it.

Maruf said...

Sukumar is right. Thanks to Mr. Anonymous we have lost an intelligent contributor to this blog

Mr. Anonymous, I'm a muslim who undertook the study of Sanskrit because it was the language of my ancestors before the Arabs and Persians forcibly converted them to Islam.

Elfie's right - The Arab traders referred to the people who lived beyond the River Indu by the same name as the river itself- 'Indu' - however, being a speaker of Arabic myslf, I can confirm that he is right about their pronounciation problem. they tended to pronounce it 'H-Indu'...and called the land 'Hindustan'

'Sthan' is of Arabic origin too.

Of course, Arabic, Latin and Persian originated from Sanskrit - it is the mother of all Indo-European languages.

Your posts can barely be understood, though I'm sure Elfie understood something of them - and that's why he/she tried to help you out.

Gayle Williams said...

I'm 'white', as Elfie put it, and whether I like it or not, Elfie's statement on the Europeans (whites) trying to prove Subcontinental culture as being primitive is true.

The Persians were also very interested in putting down your culture - they adopted the name 'Iran' which means land of the Aryans - this is impossible because 'Arya' is a Samskrth word that the Persians did not even know the meaning of - however, they also propagated the theory of 'Aryan Invasion' to give themselves credit.

Two Parsi (persian) muslims helped them to do this in India - J Nehru and M K Gandhi. This is recorded in history, though versions of history taught in india have been altered by the Nehru/Gandhi regime.

Even today, a lot of people think Gandhi, Nehru and Indira Gandhi were hindus- they were actually muslims.

I had been following these posts with interest for a few days now.

Anyways, it's a shame elfie's left - his/her language was better than mine, and I'm british!!

Fie on you, Anonymous Ristopaunche. You need to appreciate goodwill and intelligence.

Vaishnav Sharma said...

Translation-wise, Elfy's translations were very accurate throughout this blog.

Anonymous? Software Engineering requires a fair knowledge of English - how in the world did u get a job in the US when u can barely speak or understand English?!! u have misinterpreted almost every sentnce elfy said.


First learn some Sanskrit, then learn some English - and only then try to translate.

If not, at least do not ridicule others who're translating accurately.

I'm a brahmin, and my family has translated several texts from Smskrth to English.

I can say that ur translations are pure bullshit, though i can make out that u do know a lot on the subject of aghoris and Vedic scripture.

All ur sentences in English are absolute gibberish and i don't think it's anything to be ashamed about- after all, u r not an english speaker.

However, u should be ashamed of insulting and chasing away some1 who could do a much better job of translating Smskrth to English.

I think u r bharathic/indian, and am truly ashamed that we are from the same motherland.

regards, Vaishnav

Achuthan Nambiar said...

it is true that The Holy Land of Bharath has been renamed with a british name - india

and it is true that the Parsis (muslims) have been manipulating history in order to give credit to their culture for everything good in Bharath.

it is true that the national anthem was chosen by Mr Nehru to insult a great culture - and the idiots who call themselves indians now don't even realize that every time they sing Jana Gana Mana they're paying homage to a british king.

it's also true that Gandhi, nehru and Indira were all muslims.

Anonymous, you know something about Aghoris - but in every other way you are an imbecile. Also, I think you're lying about meeting Aghoris in the US...sounds like so much rubbish.

If you're a software engineer, may Eashwara (Lord Shiva) help the software industry!!!

Bharathan K. Nair said...

Why blame the british or the parsis for the downfall of Bharath?

With bastard cavemen like 'anonymous' who don't even know what the meaning of 'Bharatha' in Sanskrit, we don't need anyone from outside to destroy our culture.

Virender Singh said...

OMG...I googled 'aghori' and this blog was one of the results. I spend an hour or so reading through this- what a journey.

I am indian, but now wish to call myself a Bharatha...not by a british name.

This blog has made me realize a lot of things.

oh, who is this anonymous chap?

whoever, this is for him:

Anonymous, you fucking cunt!! in which part of vedic text do you find the word 'hindu'?!

start using ur brains, motherfucker - and don't lie - there is no freaking way you are a software engineer. I am in software myself, and I doubt if any engineer could work with language like urs!!

oh, if you are programmer, don't mix that with software engineering. programming is merely the donkey work in a vast engineering process.

hell, u don't even sound like a programmer. u sound like one of those converted christians trying to screw up a great culture-bastard!!

go back 2 ur wormhole of a church and suck jesus cock. dont talk about topics and knowledge you don't know.

Maria Meneaud said...

Enough of all this, people. come on. okay, thousands of years ago we were all Vedics.

today, there are hindus, christians, muslims, buddhists, jains etc.

so what?! remember -this is the Kali Yuga, as Elfie tried to say.

In the Kali Yuga, Kali will do his best to divide humanity and make it fight within.

in his efforts, he has appeared to Moses as Yahweh's voice, to Jews as Jesus, to Mohammed as Allah's voice in a dream, to Siddhartha as the rebellion that blinded him to Vedic knowledge...and so on forth.

now, why should we be divided?!

we are intelligent beings. we don't need to listen to jesus' bullshit, siddhartha's buddhist rubbish or allah's ridiculous crap.

we can think for ourselves. grow up - and remember, whether we call ourselves indians or pakistanis or nepalis, we are all Bharathas by culture and by Karma.

Nothing can change that.

Unite, people. and no one can defeat us - not jesus, not allah, not hinduism, not buddhism, not politicians like gandhi or nehru, not bastard cultures like the british, the dutch or the americans.

Tim Granvilani said...

"Rig Veda was recited in Indus plain and those vedic in Indus plain were called “hindu”"


Hahahahaha..who is this moron?! for fucks sake, mate!!

were called 'hindu' by whom, you friggin gaandu? by your fucking whore of a grandmom? or by your sister when she was sucking arab cock?!

only the arabs called the vedics hindu.

and no, neither knowledge nor bhakthi have anything to do with 'belief' -- I don't think you understand the meaning of the ENGLISH word 'belief' - belief is 'Vishwasa', not bhakthi - actually, Vishwasa = trust, not belief...belief is superstition - elfy's right.
There're so many idiots who think they're propagating their 'culture' when they're actually selling someone else's...

eLFie said...

Hi All,

I'm not clear on how you found my email - but whomever that was - when I came back here, and saw the storm of opinion that has brewed since I left, I was truly astonished.

Let's not get Anonymous wrong - remember - he DOES know more about the Path of The Aghori than any of us do - what I suspect happened was that he misunderstood every word of mine.

if the Anonymous Aghori is around, I invite him to a proper discussion - I mean PROPER - wherein should either of us not understand a statement, we should ask the other person what the word/statement/phrase means.

Honestly, I was a little sad that a great opportunity to learn about Aghoris was lost earlier.

It's quite obvious that the Anonymous Aghori did not understand what I meant by 'belief' or 'knowledge'. He definitely has been brain-washed by the 'Nehru' education system- and thinks that there really was an Aryan invasion, and that history in Bhaaratha began only 5000-6000 years ago.

Can't blame him - all those poor people think so - shame - Bhaarathas calling themselves bloody indians.

But we cannot go back in history, kill M K Gandhi when he was not so dangerous, or abort Nehru's birth when his mother was whoring around back then.

We can only hope that Sathyam (The Truth) will live through this Yuga as prophecied by the ancients 50,000 years ago.

kk said...

Really cool stuff...
Anyways, Once there was a real wise man, who used to speak very less and just the meaningful terms. He went to visit one of his friend, who was not in a good mood. So when this wise man reached his friend's place, he got a lot of abusive words instead of a warm welcome. he returned back to his place and his followers ask that why he didnt speak even a single word in response to all those abusive words? He replied, when you goes to meet someone, they generally offers drink and snacks, and if you deny for that, the whole things remains to the host. In the same manner i didnt took even a single abusive word, and hence all those still belong to the narrator.
SO, my dear Narrators, i dont think that if u are using abusive words against anyone, they will accept it, so why this whole "Aghori story" is just full of lot of compliments for others???

anyways, by chanting 100 times a false cant be a truth. everyone has his/her own faith, every individual think that he/she is right.

whosoever doesnt believe in "Aghor vidya", should realize that Without smoke there is no fire.

Well, Elfie, it seems u have a good collection of books on indian culture and history. If you have some sort of soft copies related to all about supernatural/paranormal power, pls provide it to me (if possible)

KK

Achuthan Nambiar said...

Hi KK,

Nice story there...but I think that something like that would have happened in another Yuga.

However, symbolically, the story is quite meaningful - if you do not react to another person's bad vibes, you yourself will not be affected.

nice one. and if anyone will put up e-books on our great culture, I will join KK in studying more about Bharath.

I do not wish to die an indian, but wish to die a true Bhaaratha.

oh, KK,, abusive words by themselves are not such a bad thing - after all, they are also 'expression' :)

some people deserve to be exposed to such words. hopefully, such people will not be as wise as the man in the story hehe

eLFie said...

Hi there KK.

that's a nice parable.

".... by chanting 100 times a false cant be a truth. everyone has his/her own faith, every individual think that he/she is right."

KK, if you won't get this the wrong way, I'd like to comment on that statement.

Remember, we live in Maya - and the nature of Maya is such that our thoughts/vibes/chants are powerful enough to effect changes Maya. Such is the power of the Human mind/aura.

Of course, subjectivity and individuality is all about people having their own version of the lie or the truth or something in between.

The Truth, however, is an entity in its own right. It exists regardless of anyone's personal outlook or perception.

Hence the ancient vedic excerpt - "Sathyam Aeva Jayathey, Naan Hrutham"

which means 'Truth alone shall win, NOT untruth'

And no, I do not have any books etc. I travelled the Holy Land of Bhaaratha - and the land is so powerful that you can feel the power of its knowledge.

It's hard to put in words. However, if you could go to The Holy Land and spend some time in areas considered holy by the wise, you would, I think 'absorb' a lot.

None of us think Aghorism is an invalid form of divine expression, I think.

The Original Aghori is Lord Shiva himself.

I think a previous participant Ristopaunche/Anonymous merely made a lot of mistakes. While the Samskrth words he used were actually correct, his translations in English were entirely off the mark. and he just kept making silly remarks-like this statement:

"Hence isolated definition in between vedic and hindu is just not possible."

You see, the word 'hindu' is not from any of the Bhaarathic languages, and it never occurs anywhere in The Veda. It was the term used by ignorant Arab traders to refer to the vast culture beyond the River Indu.

The Veda was not put in writing anywhere near the River Indu or the adjoining valley a couple of thousand years ago --- and there never was any Aryan invasion from outside. Aryans are a class of people within Bhaaratha who have existed for as long as the land itself.

It was first put in writing by none other than Veda Vyasa and Lord Ganesha together in the area currently known as Uttarakhand. And this occured at the end of the previous Yuga-more than 7000 years ago. Till then, such knowledge was passed on from mind to mind.

Anyways, my whole point is, all you need to do is go to Bhaaratha, and absorb the knowledge, for it is the land of true knowledge.

The very best in your ventures.

Anonymous said...

aghoris are a shameful sect of people who indulge in every sort of vices(evil things).they roam naked /eat feaeces shit/people run to pick up dhuni babas shit as holy prasad/my friends this is not pure bhakti ;its some form of evil satanic grip which has caught aghoris in its vice like grip/there is no use to deny or confuse ordinary people by engaging in useless commenting unconcerned to the aghori subject/one thing is dead certain aghoris are a bunch of evil obnoxious dreaded people away from mainstream hinuism

abas said...

Dear all,I found your blog interesting and am interested in this Subject. Things that I felt I should comment on are listed here - 1.Blogs as this are to share Knowledge.
2. Everyone contributes by adding so much info b'coz they belive that is right.
3. Abusing others ignorance is essentially 'AHANKAR'.
4.Correct them if possible, SWEARING at them only shows 'FURSTRATION' & INTOLERANCE of the individual.
5. Lets get more views of people who have had personal encounters with AGHORI MUNIS.
6.Language should not be an issue.This is no ENGLISH GRAMMER CLASS,Lets try and look beyond the words for the truth.
7.For those who think that AGHORIS are not to be pusued - Do give some valid points, instead of throwing a tantrum. Try and counter with some first hand info to refute.

Sukumar said...

Another anonymous idiot educated by 'hinduism'...and the Nehru/Gandhi version of history...

hear hear

eLFie said...

hehehe...spot on Sukumar, he's more like one of the Islamics due to whom I have decided I wish to be a Vedic, and not a muslim...


he's a hindu, and that means he's as religious/superstitious as I was when I was trapped in Islam

Maruf said...

eLFie,

because I do not wish to hurt my parents and family, I'm still trapped in Islam...

Thanks to experiences like this blog, I get some peace of mind.

let's just ignore anonymous idiots. at least the other one actually knew something about Aghoris and some scriptures whereas this one's an idiot.

eLFie said...

Abas,

Yes indeed, blogs are aimed at gaining knowledge.

when expressing anything, or making a point in a discussion, unless the point is made correctly, there is always the issue of ambiguity.

We try to avoid this by making a statement as precise as possible in order that it not be interpreted wrong.

In our discussion, we have already crossed a point where we have concluded that belief is not what we are after. We only make points about things we KNOW for sure - by inner experience or otherwise irrefutable proof. So it doensn't matter what any of us believe, we're after the Truth, which by definition, is unaffected by anyone's superstitions/beliefs.

'Ahankara:' Hmmm. I suggest you look up the origin of this word in Samskrith. Abusing anyone for any reason, be it their ignorance or their behaviour or their culture, is not a good thing. But there are more accurate words to describe such actions/attitudes.

It is inevitable that when one person is offended, he/she will resort to abuse. We try to work around such differences by bringing back the focus of the discussion to The Truth we seek.

I do not condone swearing, personally, but it's a free world, and I do not personally swear as far as possible.

If you know anyone who's had a personal encounter with an Aghori, please invite them to share their experience.

Language is an issue, as incorrect statements lead to ambiguity - and ambiguity is the essence of lies or fiction. The Truth, by definition, cannot be ambiguous.

So, while we appreciate all input, someone in this group would definitely try to disambiguate an otherwise ambiguous statement.

Ambiguity deters the accuracy of a description - be it the description of a concept, or of an experience.

Once we clear up any ambiguity, then we are free of the mess that words tend to create.

The other option is telepathy, but that mode of communication is gone with the ancients, and is available only to select people.

Again, I'd love to start up such a pure mode of communication wherever possible.

Anyone and everyone who says anything about anything is requested to make valid points, as opposed to making vague statements.

I look forward to reading what you have to say...

Aditya said...

There is one movie releasing in Tamil called Naan Kadavul which means i am god or i am that

here is the trailor movie is based on Aghori Sadhus

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=LRZBPvsC0L4

-


God to be omni present(sarva-vyapi),omnisient(sarvajnan).there is only one God however, Hindus worship the three principal manifestations of god:

BRAHMA-RACHAYITA(GENERATOR)
VISHNU-PALANKARTA(OPERATOR)
MAHESH-SANGHARAK(DESTROYER)
= GOD

soul(atman)does not die when the bodydies.
based on the karma of the presentlife,
the atman(soul)transmigrates from one body to another.
The cycle of birth,death and rebirth
continues till one achieve liberation.
No weapon can cut this soul,nor any
fire can burn it,no water can make
it wet and no wind Can dry it.

|| Aham Brahmasmi ||

Anonymous said...

All Aghori's have is a Strong belief system which is built on wrong practices.
Eating a Corpse invites one the Sanskaras hidden in the Subtle body of the dead Person and is no way a tool for enlightenment.
Occult powers can be gained by rigorous practices and are certainly not a sign for Self-realization.
All Men and Women has to do is to find a method to stop the Mind to be God.
There are Several Techniques for that; Shiva Sutras, Zen Methods and the easiest one being surrender to a Truth realized Master.
Life is simple, if we mess around with things the Law of Karma will catch-up with us. It's a Law even if you are a Siddha or Aghori.

eLFie said...

Karma exists at 3 levels, - at the level of thought, at the level of speech, and at the level of action/deed.

the first level can supersede the other two in priority depending on the doer and the level of his/her consciousness.

Karma is just not that simple, and your argument fails in that Aghoris do not 'believe', they 'know' - and there's a succinct difference between the two concepts that we have already determined with rigorous discussion.

You're right in that Karma does catch up.

Many cheers.

oortclo said...

Found this article as part of google search for aghori. intresting aspects and information in comments.

reading for the first time that MKGandhi and Nehru are muslims - any articles I can read?

Elfie, do you publish any blogs? would like to subscribe. What is comawake?

oortclo said...

to add some more on Aditya, I met a close friend of Director Balu on my journey from DC to NJ. Dont remember his name, he worked as cinematographer for Balu's earlier movies. As per him..Balu and him did spend some time with Aghori's.

Anonymous said...

elfie,
Human Body is not designed for Cannibalism. That's the domain of Animals.
This 'Knowing' is a Fallacy. In this Universe a Flower doesn't struggle to bloom, Sun doesn't Struggle to shine, everything happens naturally with least effort if one turns the mind inward.
Awakening is a birth right for all and not for special sects through rare practices. Universe is the mother of mercy, it treats all equally.

chillsearcher said...

by far the most sensible comment so far on the whole blog -makes sense and is neither shrouded in a cloud of mysticism nor any cultural conditioning.
truth
even if you don't think the universe treats everything equally - if you look more carefully you can see that there is a balance to everything in life.
it is a constant swinging of a pendulum

madviper said...

read the whole stuff.... but it doesn't make much sense to me.... i mean the aghori part is cool... as in they going on the path of enlightenment and all that(as long as they aren't bothering me... i can respect them..) but throughout the post i can see references like stupid arabs christians, buddhas and stuff like that.... which i don't think says much about the Vedic Culture... i'm not Vedic... nor do i belive in god... that's just my choice... but saying what other people believe (faith) is rubbish is i think not really a nice thing to do. Come to think of it... this is the hallmark of nearly every religion...is this what being a Vedic means ?
About Nehru,Gandhi being a muslim does it really matter what they were ? i mean they are not Gandhi and Nehru because they were muslims they were normal men who shaped India's destiny ((unlike us)) respect them for that .... also i am proud of being an Indian and i am not ashamed of saying that. The blog had a great starting and first few posts were definitely amazing... but then ... people started fighting amongst themselves.. abusing each other...showing that we as humans have to screw up everything... if one guys says something nice... there would be 20 against him to question and 400 to counter that and so on....
I know i am writing this out of context to the blog.... but all this talk of spiritual enlightenment does is it make my life better in the short run ?
Would it solve the world problems ?
Can it stop terrorism ?
How about poverty, greed, genocide... these are the problems that plague my mind... not the eternal death or the journey after that.

eLFie said...

Hi Ortcloo,

Thank you for your interest.

Yes, I do have a private blog, which unfortunately due to the nature of the information on it, is very very private.

However, I'm glad that you do take an interest in the true history of the subcontinent and its peoples.

Yes, Nehru was a Parsi, who later converted to Islam, and Indira Priyadarshini was born a Muslim. Gandhi was also a Muslim. Together these people were part of a plan to make India a Muslim nation (which is why they tried to remove Bhaaratha from public memory)- which fortunately did not work. The Partition was the result of a failure of their original plan.

Anyways, that's history, and most of the information regarding this is available in government archives in various states of modern Bharat- many of which require a high level of security clearance.

Comawake is a group of production artistes who organize music festivals in Oz, mostly around Melbourne VIC.

Many cheers,
eLFie

eLFie said...

Oh, and Ortcloo, what in the world do dc and nj mean, please?

Maruf Hossain said...

Aaah Aditya, you have touched me deeply with a rendition of the First Truth (though Truth cannot be categorized from an absolute perspective - it's a complete whole):

Aham Brahmasmi!!

Looks like you're one of the few people who realizes that 'hinduism' does not really exist, and that in the Vedic system, there is no concept of 'god' as it exists in Islam, Judaism or Christianity.

There is the Supreme Being, who is beyond all attributes, and does not have any desires, and for the purpose of Governance, manifests in multiple forms - much like the prime minister selects the cabinet.

So good to hear from you, my friend!

Keep on the path to Truth...

eLFie said...

Dear Anonymous,

If you're serious about a discussion, please have the balls to leave your name.

If you're incapable of differentiating between belief and knowledge/experience, then please be happy within your beliefs/superstitions/assumptions.

The Universe is merely a part of a system, and it is this system we discuss here, with a few morsels of actual history thrown in as we share common experiences that are obviously beyond your level of existence. It virtually has no conscious choice to make - such choices are karmically made by various conscious beings, of which Human Beings are a very powerful kind.

Thank you.

Achuthan Nambiar said...

Dear Chillsearcher,

what is sensible and what is not depends a lot on levels of perception.

One who has never experienced vision can only imagine and believe what someone he trusts tells him about what the world around him looks like.

But he who has vision does not need to believe/live on an assumption/superstition. He merely needs to open his eyes and look around (in the right state of mind, of course - amongst other factors - but this is just an example) to see what the world really looks like.

The blind man can never truly perceive what the man with vision can, and this also works in converse.

A comment may seem sensible merely because the other comments or concepts are outside your levels of perception.

if you're the thinking kind, try reading Bertrand Russell's Introduction to Philosophy before you presume your perception of the world is even real.

Good luck.

eLFie said...

Hi Madviper,

Your opinion is welcome, and quite interesting, actually. Unfortunately, it looks like you hadn't much of a clue as to what this discussion is about

**i'm not Vedic...**

Well...okay. So...? No forcible conversions here - we're not Muslims or Christians or people from any belief/superstition-system who're programmed to convert or destroy.

****nor do i belive in god...****

Look up the dictionary on the word 'believe', and you may realize that its interchangeable with 'assume/assumption' or 'superstition' or 'faith'. The concept of an old man upstairs trying to save your ass is Adamic (jewish/christian/islamic). It does not exist in the Vedic portrayal. Sin and Salvation do not exist - only errors and remedies do. There is no instillation of guilt or fear by The Veda, as there is by every religion, including Hinduism.
None of us believe in anything. I accept what I can experience on a spiritual scale, and strive to gain knowledge rather than exist in superstition/belief/faith/stupidity.
Historically, everything here is documented – though in many cases the documents are not publicized by governments/religious bodies.
This discussion is not about anyone's superstitions. Belief is strongly looked down upon by most of the people in this discussion - I wonder why you didn't notice that when you read through this page.


**that's just my choice...**

Sure - everyone from those who're suffering in Gaza to the terrorists from Israel who inflict suffering made a choice to have their lives the way they are - this choice was made when they performed actions/deeds and harbored thoughts in previous lives that had the consequences they must live through in their current lives.

This is a phenomenon known as Karma.

tell us something we don't know...

**but saying what other people believe (faith) is rubbish is i think not really a nice thing to do**

Perhaps you should read a jesus' storybook or mohammad's fiction before you comment.

in both these books, it is clearly stated that those who do NOT have superstitious beliefs about jesus or allah are inferiors, infidels and heretics, and must be either converted or punished

Our comments on 'rubbish' are not based on the fact that other people subscribe to the rubbish--** Our discussion has come to a point where superstition/belief/assumptions have been accepted as being inferior to actual conscious experience/knowledge.

Now, tell me - why exactly is it nice for religious texts to tell people that everything that is not in the text is rubbish? or that other people are merely rubbish?

And yes, this is a hallmark of most religions, which is why we denounce religion.

the word 'Veda' means "to know" - and a Vedic, by definition, is he who seeks to know more, and find out by direct (inner) experience.

Have you ever experienced a level of consciousness that allows you to communicate via thought?

Have you ever experienced your true nature (Self?) sans the body/mind complex?

Have you ever tried to find out who you really are or why you're here? what is your purpose?

if you feel you're a random being that came into existence as a result of the weird accident/coincidence known as evolution, then go for it.

If you're into science or physics, I strongly suggest you look up the mathematics involved in Quantum Physics. This level of abstract math comes from the Veda directly. The 'modern' decimal number system you use comes from The Veda, or Bhaaratha, for that matter.

The Veda is a complete documentation of the system which we're a part of, and of which we are actually creators - strangely enough, Quantum Physics states the same today.

**but all this talk of spiritual enlightenment does is it make my life better in the short run**

Only you can change your Karma, which we've already discussed. no blog can do that for you. Wanting to seek the Truth/Yourself is a good start, though.

**people started fighting amongst themselves.. abusing each other...showing that we as humans have to screw up everything**

Such is the nature of Humans in the Kali Yuga - when Kali is in control. Kali works at a subliminal level you may not understand. He's not a monster or a vampire - he's a thought demon - Yes, thoughts change the world - Quantum Physics again re-stating what is in The Veda.

**they are not Gandhi and Nehru because they were muslims they were normal men who shaped India's destiny ((unlike us)) respect them for that**

Lol..this one's hilarious, actually. Okay, you go ahead and respect Gandhi for destroying the social and economic fabric of Bhaaratha - of Bharat/India, as it's fashionably known nowadays.

Also respect Nehru for raping and pillaging countless mothers and daughters and communities just because they weren't muslims. Have you read the memoirs one of Nehru's men released a few years ago? If not, at least take the pain to go through files in various government archives.

Also, while you're respecting them for what they did, perhaps you can explain why an Italian passport holder controls a powerful political party?

Explain why two anti-Bharatic christians christened in Italy as Raoul and Bianca are known as Rahu and Priyanka in india.

Explain why the world's richest economy/nation in 1945 suddenly turned into a madhouse of religious terrorism in 1948.

Explain why MK Gandhi chose to fund the creation of a Muslim state that originally included most of modern india with the equivalent of USD 1 trillion in 1947.

Explain why Gandhi emphatically insisted the British leave Bharat without solving the religious issues though he was clearly told that riots would ensue.

Explain why people like you - the common man in India - is so unaware of what actually happened, and instead read an Iran-supported version of history where there is an Aryan invasion (though this has never been proven) that Nehru marketed in his damning book - the discovery of India...lol.

Explain why the entire Media industry in 'india' is owned, controlled and funded by Christian or Muslim bodies from EU and the Middle East....and explain why only acts of violence on Muslims/Christians are ever published.

Have you ever seen an article that says anything bad about the Christians/Muslims? Ever wonder why...?

**How about poverty, greed, genocide... these are the problems that plague my mind... not the eternal death or the journey after that**

In 1825 Lord Macaulay told the british parliament (you can verify this if you go to the UK and access parliamentary minutes that record meetings/sessions) "I have traveled the length and breadth of this vast land, and have not seen a beggar, a thief, or a woman disrespected. Even though the barbarians from Central Asia (Mughals) have raped countless native women for conversion-and slaughtered their sons/husbands, many proud natives have chosen death over conversion- they know no fear. I have never seen a braver or more powerful peoples. The only way we can conquer this nation is to destroy its greatest heritage - it's spiritual backbone, and show the natives that everything we have is superior to what they have... "

Good old Macaulay was merely copying tactics he'd learned from the Mughal rulers who bragged of their conquests to him. Muslims and Christians have been systematically doing this for centuries - go and read some history.

800 years ago, when Marco Polo traveled the globe (and he took noodles from china to italy to create Pasta, coffee from Arabia to Italy!!) he said of what is now known as Kerala in Bharat - "... this is a land of bounty - there are diamonds in the fields and there is gold in the river, but no one cares- these people are rich and prosporous - there is enough food for everyone, women walk with their heads held high and are respected throughout the land, the people are free to make opinions, and the Kings make decisions based on peoples' preferences...."

He said many more unbelievable things about the rest of Bharat that you may be interested in reading.

My point is, to see solutions to the problems that plague your mind, it may be a good idea to seek the origin/root of those problems.

one root cause would be ignorance.

Good luck.

ganti said...

Sri Gurubhyon Namaha
Aghoris are a sect that try to see everything is essentially the same they wont be happy if you give them a five star meal nor would they be sad when you offer rotten food, essentially the human body is made up of the same 5 elements as evrything else in the world, they try to see it and practice it, it is tough for us to visualise what the aghoris practice as we have not transcended the dualities of good and bad or happiness and sorrow.
They are essentially trying to realise brahaman and in the process acquire some siddhis, but they give them up aswell as that causes pride and distrcats them into other worldly affairs. I have come across them quite a few time and very interesting philosophy that they have. If you are interested in meeting them go to the ambutchi festival at kamakhya temple in assam held sometime n june you are bound to get intouch with a few very very advanced tantriks.

Sri Lalitha parabhattarika, Kamakshi rajarajeshwarai namaha

eLFie said...

Dear Ganti,

I am overjoyed to hear words of truth and wisdom.

Many cheers to the ultimate Aghori - Lord Shiva himself...

|| Shambho Mahadeva, Parvathiye Vallabhaya ||

Achuthan Nambiar said...

Finally, a breath of fresh air!!

Kudos, Ganti. Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Yes, indeed the Aghoris are on the path to Moksha, albeit in an admittedly different way - which is not so different if you know something about Lord Shiva.

Om Shivaya Namaha :)

Maruf Hossain said...

Ganti,

Pleased to meet you. I may have been born a Muslim, but that's just bad Karma I have to live out in this Kali Yuga.

I am so happy to have you join this discussion - true knowledge and relevant information is what we welcome.

Thank you.

Nair said...

Do we need to discuss further? All of us are saying the truth. If some of these comments doesn't seem to be true for some of us , still it is uttered by Brahmas will and , there for beautiful.
Achutan , Anonymous and Elfie all are one. If anonymous is saying lies those lies are also beautiful.
Return to where you belong. the eternal bliss.
By You.

கே.கே said...

I am following this blog for more than 2 months. Its quite Interesting and increased my desire a lot to become an agori not for the sidha they gain, but the only fact of life they follow. Elfie's arguments were good and gained me the realization of our so called Barathas history. However I dont like any of the Politicians starting from Gandhi.
But I am really disappointed, that the very first Anonymous didnt turn again. Wouldn't have been fantastic, we could have known more from elfie.

KK.

NormalGuy said...

very interesting discussion above.
I actually watched the Tamil movie Naan Kadavul(mentioned above by someone) few hours ago. Well googled Aghori out of curiosity to know more about it. As is the case with others it brought me here.

Very interesting and healthy discussion above. Thanks to Elfie and others who are sharing their knowledge here. It is amazing guys.

About the movie if you are curious - Well the protagonist is a Aghori who is brought to his hometown by his father to meet his mom(shes been dying to meet him atleast once, well there is a reason how he became Aghori which I am not saying it here) but movie doesnt delve much into their lifestyles cuz its not a movie about Aghori. For more you can read it in this link ..
http://sify.com/movies/tamil/review.php?id=14852479&ctid=5&cid=2429 . Overall a very interesting premise and good movie which could have been better is my take.

I was wondering why shud one retort to extreme lifestyles for attaining enlightenment or what you might call breaking free from Karmic cycle. I am calling it extreme as it is extreme for most people.

How about Buddhism or other not so extreme ways for attaining Enlightenment?

It could be a very naive question for folks here. Sorry if this is not the right place for this question. Id really appreciate if someone can give me an answer. Thanks in advance.

Pankaj kumar yadav said...

I am very thankful to everyone for their valuable input.

I would like to add my points here
ofcourse there are lots of people here who know more than me can correct me ...

not everyone will understand Aghori babas because the level of understanding needed is very different, for instance, you can ask a 6th grader about Gravity, he would say its a force and for all practical reasons and calculations his definition and formula just works fine.... and ask the same question to a physicist, he would say its the space that is curved and ofcourse he knows it better than the kid. But they are both right in their own ways. You can't let the physicist explain the kid about space time geometry.

the kid has to learn himself and reach the level(grade) to understand it.

few years back i read an article, where the author says there are 2 ways of enlightenment, both are extreme... one way you love everyone and everything and attain enlightenment and the other one says hate every one and everything and you will still attain Enlightenment. it is not the path which is important but the goal and some are brought up in a condition where going against the society is a better option. Not all can become Aghoris, but surely you can follow their philosophy.

If you are becoming aghori you cannot love a country or religion and hate others. you can't be partial.

I wanted to watch the Movie today, but could not book the tickets, possibly watch it tomorrow.

"Sarvam Shakthimayam"

Kiran said...

Found this blog when searching for Aghori after watching a Tamil movie.

I'm completely struck with the information flowing in this blog and could not stop till i read out all the comments.

In the Tamil movie (Naan Kadavul - I'm the God, they describe Aghories with the following characters.

1. They are capable of stopping the soul to take re-birth and thus it attains Moksha.
2. They can differentiate good and bad people looking at their faces and they can not tolerate bad people.
3. They remain drugged all the time.

I’m don’t like to comment on the first 2 points, as I feel there can be colors added by the movie makers to make the story impressive.

I have come across the third point in some other article. Can anyone tell me if the Aghories are really alcoholic? If yes, what is the idea behind that? I agree they consume filth as they believe that every creation in this world has its own beauty and significance. The act of Having drugs or alcohol looks strange to me.

eLFie,

You seem to be very knowledgeable person. I definitely agree with your explanation on ‘believing’ and ‘Knowing’ something. Thank you some much providing so many facts and ideas which I have never come across. I would like to become your disciple if I ever get a chance. 

I seek your advice. Have to explore the mother land (Bhaarath).

Anonymous said...

Hello,

I too watched the movie Naan Kadavul couple of hours ago and googled the word aghori. Thanks to all the people for their contributions on aghori sadhus. Also eLFie special thanks to you for enlightening me to some level on the history of Bharathaa and the Vedas. Your knowledge on both is overwhelming.

dave said...

Being an aetheist, I believe that God (whether it is Shiva, Allah, Jesus,etc.) is an idea that stems from the human brain.

Human's tend to 1. fear the unknown 2. need to be wanted and
3. seek explanations

A combination of these three needs result, forms the basis of the idea of God.

In other words, man has created God. It is not the other way around.

eLFie said...

Normal Guy,

One does not have to resort to any extreme measures. there are many roads to Truth. Some choose what others consider extreme.

It's social and other conditioning that makes us feel such measures are extreme. And whether we like it or not, most of the conditioning we suffer from is Adamic (christian/muslim/jewish) in nature. Buddhism is merely an incomplete and distorted account of The Veda propagated by one misguided Bhaaratha known as Siddhartha. Why opt for a half-truth=Untruth? (please read through discussion to understand what I mean by Truth)

Hi KK,

it's not "so-called Bhaaratha" -- it's actually "so-called India".

The English expression 'so-called' is used to denote an entity known by a name by which it actually shouldn't, or by which it is mistakenly called.

I'm thrilled to hear intelligent feedback from fellow-Bhaarathas.

Bhaaratha is not just a nation. It's an entire set of ethics, processes and principles outlined in The Veda (= to know, as opposed to belief/superstition). The Veda as it is documented today is a blasphemy, and the original is lost in time. Fortunately, for many ten-thousands of years, it has been passed on from mind to mind, and exists in unique forms today - for those who seek the Truth.

eLFie said...

Pankaj Kumar Yadav,

Your comments are as meaningful and deep as your name is.

Worthy of a Bhaaratha. We all contain within ourselves the Truth, as we are The Brahma ourselves. There is no creator other than ourselves - So sayeth The Veda.



Dave,

Sorry dude, you're starting off with logic, which is a level of thought we've long since abandoned.

Logically, the US should definitely not be controlling world economy. Logically, Israel should never exist. Logically, the Vatican, Christian States and Islamic states should never exist.

Here's some logic for you to chew on:

Geologists have now proven that 70 million years ago, The Himalays were thrown up from under the ocean when the Indian Subcontinent tectonic plate crashed into the Asian continent's tectonic plate.

This precise event, and it's timing, is mathematically denoted in The Veda, a document that within itself claims to be of non-human origin.

This document does not propagate the concept of a creator or the adamic concept of 'god' as some chap who creates stuff as a hobby.

It defines a process, and a system, of which we are part. This process is described very precisely. This is the document from which the modern decimal (Hindu-Arabic)number system comes.

The Zero was 'invented' by the users of this documentation - The Ancient Bhaarathas, now referred to by many as Ancient Indians.

There is no superstition involved here. Only empirical proof and facts.

No 'god', no christian creator, no silly logic etc.

Remember, your level of thought originates from biblical brain-washing processes that have gone on in your society for a couple of thousand years. Try and break free. It's quite nice to be free.

Now, grow up, read the discussion properly, and come back with a not-so-lame argument.

eLFie said...

Hi All,

I'm no longer going to be on this page.

I shall no longer be keeping track of new comments.

for all those who wish to continue this discussion, I shall create a new Blog - and the details shall be here soon. Many cheers, and thank you all for your contributions, retributions and perspectives.

Warm regards

eLFie said...

Please visit

http://elfie-seekthetruth.blogspot.com/

to leave your thoughts on Bhaaratha, The Truth, The Vedas, Aghoris and so on.

I look forward to intelligent discussions with one and all of you.

Cheers

eLFie said...

Hi Kiran,

I haven't replied to your question - I look forward to meeting you at the new Blog page.

We shall take the discussion from there.

Post your questions, and I shall answer the best I can.

Regards

NormalGuy said...

Hi Pankaj Kumar Yadav and Elfie.

Thanks for taking time to reply.
Very interesting revelation about Buddhism Elfie.(wud like to have some substantial info on it)
Anyways, its just one of the questions that struck me after going thru this page, but there is lot more I would like to know maybe we could discuss in the new page Elfie has created.
Thanks again.
Rajiv

eLFie said...

Hi Rajiv,

Thank you. I look forward to discussing this further with you.

Dear all,

From this point on, I shall not receive any updates/posts from this page.

My sincere thanks to one and all who've contributed to the fantastic discussion on this page.

As the person who started a controversy on this page, I invite you to visit

http://elfie-seekthetruth.blogspot.com/

and put forth your thoughts The Truth on it.

Again,

Thank you for your time and intelligence. It's been a refreshing experience so far.

Vinayak said...

Kiran,

The use of drugs and intoxicating substances by Tantriks has profound impact on their spiritual pursuit. The main aim of Tantriks and Yogis is the attainment of moksha, liberation from the cycle of birth and death, the union of self and "The Self", "The Self" being synonymous with Shiva(In case of Aghoris. Yogis do not have a particular deity in mind. There are other Tantriks who believe in various other gods like Kali or manifestations of Shakti).
When seen from a logical or scientific point of view, there is a very clear indication of all the ancient texts including the Upanishads pointing to the fact that everything is energy and yoga or siddhi is a means by which the energy in the universe is returned back to it so that it does not manifest in the form of human again. How can this be done? You will have definitely seen or at the least, heard about people who have the power of telekinesis and telepathy. These powers are called psychic powers because they are manifested by the subconscious mind which leads us to a conclusion that as one reaches into the depths and awakens his conscious mind, he is able to manifest energy in different forms.
How do drugs help in doing this and how does doing this, i.e. awakening the subconscious help in attaining Moksha? Drugs and other intoxicating substances have a way of switching of the conscious and awakening the subconscious. Extreme Euphoria leads to a feeling of elevation from the world around you and this leads our mind to cut off the sensory channels. This is also what happens during sleep. But there is a difference. In the intoxicated state, your mind begins to dwell within itself, looking into itself, talking to itself. the chemicals have the effect of euphoria as well as the ability of shutting down the senses. But in an untamed euphoric states, the prescient subconscious mind gets so many mixed signals, that it is unable to organize itself. For a trained mind, this form of euphoria is a means to achieve samadhi, where in, the subconscious mind is organised and can dwell on one particular thing. Hope that answers your question.

"Shri MahaGanapathy MahaMaya"

arun said...

Hi all
Like Kiran & normal Guy i became curious after seeing a movie. But when i came in here, realised that there had been a great work happened & shared here...

I would want to leave a word of appreciation to everyone who has contributed...

Kudos all..

Neo said...

Hi Elfie,

I just stumbled upon the previous blog and was just curious about your knowledge.For starters, I'm agnostic, and into physics, computer science and neuroscience. I have never come across any particular mathematics that is used in quantum physics that's mentioned in Vedas. If you can give an example or reference it will be great. Although a lot of text, that is complex and abstract, explaining number theory and very elementary calculus, is present in the Vedas. I can cite references if needed.

Although, a lot of your thought process involves much better understanding of concepts, that most intelligent and intellectual people simply ignore, or choose accept what is told to them with out proper reason or logic,you seem not to question the very axioms that your belief system is founded on - Yes, I used the word belief, not truth, because until you can prove them they are just believes. Proof is another word that is inherently intertwined with logic and its something that you have avoided.

Further, you use the word "truth" and claim that "you" have abandoned logic(or at least the thought process of using it), the very system that spawns the existence of the word truth and its meaning. Why? - and more importantly How?

I also would like you to quote or provide references(perhaps books or scriptures that can be accessed and also,if possible, where you came across them) when you reason with evidences from the "The Vedas" to describe,contrast,or compare the "current" scientific findings.

Finally, you said "The Veda, a document that within itself claims to be of non-human origin.... It defines a process, and a system, of which we are part. This process is described very precisely." where is this document. If it was destroyed, how do you know or have access to it,more importantly why do you choose to "believe" it. If its not,then, where and how can someone gain access to it?

I expect a better reply than some pseudo meta-physical argument that knowledge is within oneself and one has to find it and such rubbish stuff or worse some circular logic meaning nothing in essence.

Regards,
Neo.

Zedler said...

This is demonic and evil. They are being decived. Yes they may have powers. They can heal you, they can bless you with money, jobs anything worldly. That doesn't mean they are from God.
In Bible even Satan can provide you with this. He is tyhe God of this world.

But no one can save your soul. ONly Jesus can give you salvation.

Anonymous said...

Aghori is total bullshit, this kind of animals needs to be punished and be sentenced to death, they are need to be eradicated from this socity. They are just same like insane with animal mix.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the blog owners and ppl talking great abt aghori animals,now the world knows abt this HINDUTUVA CANNIBALS, THANKS INDEED, UR DIGGING URSELF, HAHAHHAHA. GO TO HELL.

Anonymous said...

ARE U NOT ASHAME TO TALK GRT ABOUT THIS ANIMALS, I STRONGLY VICTIM EVERY PERSON SPEAK GOOD ABT AGHORI ANIMAL HAS AGHORI IN HIM/HER SELF. AND THIS KIND OF PPL ARE MORE DANGEROUS AS THEY ARE SILENT KILLERS WHO CAN TURN OUT THEIR REAL AGHORI ANIMAL FACE ANY TIME AND HARM NEIGHBOURS. WORLD NEEDS TO IDENTIFY THIS KIND OF HIDDEN ANIMALS TOO.

Anonymous said...

Why did God created this world and human beings?? to develop and in changing environment. if eating a dead man's flesh and wastes was to be considered as rituals then why in the first place are they considered "waste"??
I am not blaming any "pantha" i.e. a way to do certain things...it's just that I'm curious.
There must be some reason cannot be understood by common people and hence we keep wandering in same place for the ages. We are still stuck in why and how they do it but what they do later?? What's next??
It's just that everything has good or bad qualities...a fire can burn down a house and it can also be used to cook meal!
how u think of it depends on the ultimate value of that thing!

Rajesh Menon said...

Dear Elfie......can you please paste your email address or else mail me at vrgodfather@rediffmail.com????

Pankaj kumar yadav said...

Hi Rajesh,

Elfie is not following this post.. try this blog...
http://elfie-seekthetruth.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

sorry punter pandey people like you have lost your roots and forgotten your history thats why india is a doomed .

go back and read your history you dont even know who you are and who was you great grandfathers.

you dont know this science of aghories just shut up.

Anonymous said...

To Elfie and everyone else who believes this nonsense, Ghandhi and Nehru and Indira weren't Muslims. Perhaps you think that they weren't Hindu enough, but calling them Muslim is just a lie.

Also, I think that Bhakti is partly predicated on belief because they believe that the god they worship is objectively true, not relatively true, as a manifestation of the precreated undifferentiated void reality. This is the difference between Tantra and Bhakti. In Tantra, one meditates on the forms of the gods, but always dissolves them back into the void. As a result, Bhaktis believe that the ego can be saved, which is a terrible lie.

Bhakti was created to defeat Buddhism among the masses by appealing to their love of the ego. You can try to deny this with any clever wording that you'd like (ie Bhakti surrenders his ego to the god he worships), but you can't deny that they believe that the ego continues after death. This is a fundamental Bhakti belief and one they used to differentiate themselves from the non-theistic schools.

Also, the Indo-Aryan invasion is widely accepted in academia as they most logical theory, not that you Hindutva fascists would care about "logic." You're more interested in promoting nationalism and religious sectarian violence. And really this question is irrelevant anyway-it does not matter who is responsible for the Vedas, as their deeper meanings transcend petty nationalism anyway.

Anthropologist said...

I stumbled across this while doing a paper on the Aghori.
As an anthropologist, I can say that I am truly disgusted with the vast majority of responses here.
Not to mention that the original post itself is poorly written and inconsistent, and is completely lacking source material.

Ron Barrett is an American anthropologist who spent years doing fieldwork in Banares/Varanasi, and eventually became an Aghor disciple himself. He wrote a book called "Aghor Medicine: Pollution, Death and Healing in Northern India". If you actually want to learn about the Aghori then you should read it.

The Aghori contribute a great deal to fight discrimination of diseases such as leprosy, and operate clinics and hospitals to care for those who are stigmatized because of the association of leprosy with impurity. They do not expect those who come to them for help to become disciples themselves. They turn no one away because of their philosophy of nondiscrimination. There is also no solid proof of cannibalism. And if in fact it does happen, it would only be flesh from bodies deemed too polluted for cremation and they would come from those dumped in the Ganges river, not abduction or murder. They do however ingest the ashes from the wood used in cremations as a way of overcoming fear of death and ritual pollution.

How about instead of relying on what you read in wikipedia or wherever else, read a legitimate ethnography by an actual medical anthropologist who devoted years of his life to studying this.

Anonymous said...

Jeez....

Lots of dickwads in search of some fucking shit called truth. Open your fucking eyes and see that there are more than 6.5 billion living on this earth besides the remaining species. We are sucking life out of this planet and aint any God even if he exists is gonna appreciate what the fuck we ended up in. The best thing to do is get drunk or get laid or work ur ass of in making this world a place better to live in rather than wasting time on some fucked up Gyan. And anyways thanx to the blogger for the info on Aghoris.

Cocksuckers.

Anonymous said...

Well researched and an interesting story !!!!

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Amitabha Chatterjee said...

Tailanga Swami was not an Aghori. Originally known as Hitlal Mishra, disciple of Swami Bhagirath Saraswati and famous as Trailinga or Tailanga Swami. His monkhood name : Swami Ganapati Saraswati. Aghori Sadhus belong to the Nath Order, not Dasnama Saraswati. He was an adept Yogi Sannyasi. Described as "Sachal Shiva" ie, "the moving Shiva living among us" by Sri Ramkrishna Paramhamsa, verily, he was the greatest yogi of his age.

Amitabha Chatterjee said...

The Aghori sadhus are have strange ways. But there are phony Sadhus among Aghoris too, who rejoice only in their disgusting manners, like consuming corpses, alcohol, smoking marijuana and such like; they have almost no bearing with spirituality. The true Sadhus or adepts are far more sober, kinder and wiser beings. The corpse eating aghoris are an exception in the nath tradition of Hindu Yogis. They lead a secret life away from the general population. Normal men can hardly imagine the austerities these people perform in their daily lives. We only feel revolted by their outward manners, which is a tactful cover they use to repel the inquisitive men of the world. I am trying to find facts about alchemist aghoris and tantriks from an unbiased point of view.

Anonymous said...

I am Christian and I follow Aghori path after visiting Rishikesh. Aghora is the Ultimate Truth.

Anonymous said...

The discussion on aghoris is very amusing.Being an aghori myself., i speak good english also.very fine.smiles to all.

Onmale said...

What I have to say will displease many, and I don't think you will want to answer me. Prepare your stones!

Warning: my English is far from perfect. I'll do my best.

Somebody missed a point here, it seems to me. If everything is holy, why chose what's repulsive to humans? Living in luxury would be just as blessed as eating rot. So why eat rot? To prove a point? What point? The truth (leaving aside misleading words like "sublime" or "divine" and bringing it all down to human condition) is that the aghori rituals are masochistic in the extreme.

By their rituals and behaviour, the aghoris display the whole array of symptoms of abuse - barring those few who may have joined the aghoris through some delight in perversion.

From what I have read on the Internet, aghoris seem to harm no one, to mind their own business, to indulge in heavy drug-taking and to keep defiling themselves - clear symptoms of having been abused as children.

Like many victims of abuse, they replace the abuser with themselves, (a process called "re-victimization") and, in this case, try to make it into something holy, get "moksha" (or wathever rationalization you most like or they are most likely to fool themselves and you with).
In fact, evidently, they are only trying to make the best out of an awful situation.

No wonder lots of them go downright crazy - The path to liberation goes through therapies, not punishing yourself again and again by eating shit and corpses and having to be stoned stiff to bear with it.
They are just poor guys who are fighting heavy traumas with whatever is accessible to them.

India remains the country with the highest rate of violence against women and children and the highest rate of child prostitution, child trafficking and child forced marriage. Over 53% of the indian children (of either gender) have been abused, according to a recent survey.
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=34

By the way, all that child abuse stems from the Manu Laws (that advise men aged 24 to marry girls age 6, or man age 30 to marry girls age 12), and the Vedas (that condone incest and bride burning, amongst other atrocities).

When your "holy" scriptures invite you to force your lust upon children-women you view as objects, no wonder the same vision is extented to children of either gender. The situation is so bad Indians have trouble distinguishing between consensual sex and rape. India has even been called "the rape kingdom".

So much for " Bhārata", the "holy land of knowledge", by the way. By its fruit, so shall you judge the tree... and I am deeply sorry for the self-defiling aghoris (who can go mad out of abusing themselves and living in the midst of death - a way to think of themselves living dead, mere walking corpses).

Truly sorry for them and other self-destructive people, like the Naga Sadhus - do you really think a guy who hangs a heavy stone from his penis or undergoes some other extreme self-torture does not have a big self-hate issue? (Self-hate is a prominent symptom of having been abused). How many of these sadhus rank amongst the victims? I bet the percentage is staggering. I also bet that, in a guilt and shame-based culture like India, they will not tell you about that.

The antiquated Indian laws on rape, incest and child abuse have to change and the victims should be taken in charge. And, first and foremost, the Indian "holy books" that foster any dominating or defilement of the weak and helpless should be burnt.

Onmale said...

What I have to say will displease many, and I don't think you will want to answer me. Prepare your stones!

Warning: my English is far from perfect. I'll do my best.

Somebody missed a point here, it seems to me. If everything is holy, why chose what's repulsive to humans? Living in luxury would be just as blessed as eating rot. So why eat rot? To prove a point? What point? The truth (leaving aside misleading words like "sublime" or "divine" and bringing it all down to human condition) is that the aghori rituals are masochistic in the extreme.

By their rituals and behaviour, the aghoris display the whole array of symptoms of abuse - barring those few who may have joined the aghoris through some delight in perversion.

From what I have read on the Internet, aghoris seem to harm no one, to mind their own business, to indulge in heavy drug-taking and to keep defiling themselves - clear symptoms of having been abused as children.

Like many victims of abuse, they replace the abuser with themselves, (a process called "re-victimization") and, in this case, try to make it into something holy, get "moksha" (or wathever rationalization you most like or they are most likely to fool themselves and you with).
In fact, evidently, they are only trying to make the best out of an awful situation.

No wonder lots of them go downright crazy - The path to liberation goes through therapies, not punishing yourself again and again by eating shit and corpses and having to be stoned stiff to bear with it.
They are just poor guys who are fighting heavy traumas with whatever is accessible to them.

India remains the country with the highest rate of violence against women and children and the highest rate of child prostitution, child trafficking and child forced marriage. Over 53% of the indian children (of either gender) have been abused, according to a recent survey.
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=34

By the way, all that child abuse stems from the Manu Laws (that advise men aged 24 to marry girls age 6, or man age 30 to marry girls age 12), and the Vedas (that condone incest and bride burning, amongst other atrocities).

When your "holy" scriptures invite you to force your lust upon children-women you view as objects, no wonder the same vision is extented to children of either gender. The situation is so bad Indians have trouble distinguishing between consensual sex and rape. India has even been called "the rape kingdom".

So much for " Bhārata", the "holy land of knowledge", by the way. By its fruit, so shall you judge the tree... and I am deeply sorry for the self-defiling aghoris (who can go mad out of abusing themselves and living in the midst of death - a way to think of themselves living dead, mere walking corpses).

Truly sorry for them and other self-destructive people, like the Naga Sadhus - do you really think a guy who hangs a heavy stone from his penis or undergoes some other extreme self-torture does not have a big self-hate issue? (Self-hate is a prominent symptom of having been abused). How many of these sadhus rank amongst the victims? I bet the percentage is staggering. I also bet that, in a guilt and shame-based culture like India, they will not tell you about that.

The antiquated Indian laws on rape, incest and child abuse have to change and the victims should be taken in charge. And, first and foremost, the Indian "holy books" that foster any dominating or defilement of the weak and helpless should be burnt.

Onmale said...

Sorry for my post having cloned itself. I don't know what went wrong.

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Mercury said...

Hi all, nice to hear many things and tough arguments. This blog is really very good. Guys please dont critize any religion. Every religion has its own ups and downs. The agression displayed by a religion over others is due to a few zealots which are really the culprits.

And by the way, i would like to say one more thing, speaking of vedas, the ones which have today are modified countless times knowingly or unknowingly. Each modification lead to several changes in religious practices. Sex was once a sacred act. Females were considered superior coz of their power to give birth. But now, ???

Anonymous said...

Mercury, u r very right. Only those who feel very jealous about such an exemplary civilization as Hinduism can write such nonsense about vedas.

Arjun said...

@elfie


Apart from everything being discussed here .. can you please tell me something about the beginning of the vedic or aryan age..?
because so far, form what i read, it seems THERE WAS human settlement before the time of aryans.. eg the indus valley and harrapan civilizations !
so does that mean the whole concept of vedic gods and 'the supreme one' is vague and illogical ??
(just for the record, i am someone who is lost into the concepts of 'aastik' and 'naastik'.
i mean, i am still at the stage of discovery and realization !)

Anonymous said...

@Arjun ,
There was nothing like aryan or dravidiyan its all created by british to rule the country ... and about our country .. please read through different upanishads u will get to know. read history books but not the book written by this intellectuals

@punter pandey
i feel pity for u being in this Holy land ur talking like this .. what do u thing aghori baba's are??? they will not hurt anyone and the kind of sadhana they are doing it needs nerves of steel to do it ... the dispassion l;evel to such a heights is not so easy to come ... in spiritual path what they are doing is called as 'Dispassion' where they dont consider anything materialistic as worth worrying about life.. ur blessed to have such great ppl present in our country .. first know and then talk

Dr Kamal Deep said...

I have met many aghoris and their believers..It is nothing but bull shit.This whole game plot is about instigating curiosity among the believers who are strange to this sect.All they do is under influence of THC(Tetra Hydro cannibol) or you can say ganja..They are nothing but a severely psychotic individuals.In my terms i should call this sect "Cannabinoid" NOT Cannibalistic in its purest sense.

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Where can i find Elfy ? i want to contact him! Any one know his e-mail?

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Anonymous said...

Can someone give me email ids of aghoris who can call upon spirits to clear my problems?

xlpharmacy said...

Amazing article, some really good info here, it is so cool to read about tribes or people who still leave in these conditions.

dinesh jain said...

Aghoris are also called leftist sadhus as they generally do rituals which are forbidden under the uthama system of prayer rituals.Pls read more about kalpana yoga, brahamandram, etc. which are connected to aghori philosphy.
bdineshjain@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

you are neither beautiful nor peaceful but yet you mourn!! You talk about beauty of life and yet you suggest mass suicide!! Who are you advocating for ,son??

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Amit Gautam said...

Only Aghories can survive the Apocalypse...

babu said...

Nice blog, but i noticed that elfie, despite having a good hold on English and many other language which he/she claims Says Bhaaratic instead of Bhaaratiya...one more thing i would like to point out, this is not a place where one should implicit or explicitly brag about his knowledge of language, rather should try to grasp the things as much as s/he could and contribute if possible. I confess i am not VERY fond of english, but still was able to almost all of what ristopaunche said, and I dont think that every person speaks the same language without any error any time. So that is pointless how good you know or can write english or greek, that will help you in content writing instead, and if u were a real bharaatiya, u would have aware of the fact that we don't care about whether you say paani/water/jol for H20, it is likewise for Indian/Hindu/Bhaaratiya...you do have AhaamKara and it unfortunately shows up in many of your writings, I am sorry if that hurts you.

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